Playing twice in a match

[Mary]

The Dupage league has used this policy and we're going to try it for the summer. What do you think are some of the downsides? I know we haven't announced the rules, but basiclly, someone can play twice, provided they stay under 23, so it's more than likely a lower handicap. How to handle the Top Gun points, and what about playoffs? And yes, they have to pay twice too. (although I think that should be shared by the other teammates)

Your thoughts are welcome.

[hustler76]

i have wished for that to happen where i could play the same person twice in a match sine i could not get the match-up that i wanted the first time since i am a cocaptian of sorts but that takes away from the five man team since we could put the same people up twice and the top gun scores would be the same u win u get the points since i hope for this as many teams out sure hve wished they could i must say i see nothing but aruments and b/s starting out
so must say this would be a bad idea

[cepelinas]

What was the reason behing the DuPage league's policy on this? Was it because of lack of players in the summer? Was it designed to keep a team under the 23 rule to avoid forfeiting a match?

[Mary]

To prevent teams from falling about in the summer session, due to forfeits.
It's not just Dupage... leagues all over the country have the option to do it.

[stevesgirl]

OK, here's our team's 2 cents. Sorry this is so long, but we have valid points.

Our team discussed this Thursday night and we must say, there are some serious issues that will come of it and we foresee. It's going to create alot of arguements and ALOT more teams to drop out. I'll get to the reasoning for that in a few seconds. By the way, please do something about the table and balls at Grapevine. Mainly the cue ball. Isn't there a weight limit criteria listed somewhere for the the cue ball???

We don't care if other areas utilize this and to be honest, given the fact that Joliet is up there with being one of the toughest and biggest areas in the country, I really don't see this working. Other then the only "justified" reason for doing this is to "make-up" a portion of the decrease in income over the summer. Sorry to be critical, but the truth is, with the decrease of players (teams) in the summer, there is obviously a decrease in the amount dues being paid.

How are you going to prove that a team is going to have to forfeit a match or two because players can't commit to show up? Captains can simply tell their players to stay home making it look like a forfeit. Meaning, where do you divide the line between an actual forfeit taking place and a team manipulating the rule to gain more points? I think captains/teams can and probably will take advantage of this just to make it look like their players aren't showing up so they can win top point and entry into COC.

Let's use our Thursday team for an example. We have a FULL roster of 8. Our 2 3's can't show up because it's racing season and that's their main hobby over the summer. Our 5 is out of town on business and was expected to be back but got delayed. Our 6 and 4 is on another team and maybe late. I'm a 4 and can't get a babysitter for the night. So with the new rule in place, we can play our 7 twice and our 2 twice. Then play it by ear the last match to see who shows up in time for the last match as long as its a 5 or lower to justify 23. Correct?

How fair would that be for the team we are playing AGAINST because our 7 is playing twice?

Bottom line. When you as the adult commit to playing on a team, that person already knows what their summer schedule is going to be like before they commit. Baseball/Softball registration is so early in the year and most games have already started come April. Most people don't show up because their kids have a ball game that night or their high-school babysitter called off at the last minute because she has a date. That's why you have a roster of 8. In the 3 years I've been playing, I only recall having to forfeit that last match 2 times.

If you are going to implement this and try it over the summer, I think a strict criteria and set of rules need to be in place in order for this to work and eliminate alot of distress and angry teams. I'm sure everyone in the league would agree.


1) A Team must be a complete roster of 8 to use this rule - It's not one person's fault except that of the team captain that his/her team doesn't have a full roster of 8. The odds are more in favor for a team to forfeit matches week after week with a roster of 5-6 versus a full roster of 8. You will also start to see alot more teams with only rosters of 5-6 playing because a player can play twice.

2) A team should only be allowed to use this rule ONCE. - Every scoresheet must be noted by the league director for each week thereafter that a team already exhausted this rule so they can't sneak and do it more then once in the session. Also avoids manipulation week after week by captains/teams to keep handicaps down by s@ndb@gging.

3) A team cannot use this rule during the first 4 weeks of the session. - Roster changes/subs are already allowed during the first 4 weeks.

4) A team cannot use this rule during the last 2-3 weeks of the session and during playoffs. - By doing this, it provides a "fair" and level playing field for those divisions that are close in points. Playoffs are a race to 3 anyway and if you have a 7 playing twice, you might as well not even play the match and let them advance.

5) A team cannot use this rule if they have players on their roster that are playing on multiple teams for that given night. - One team can be playing faster then the other and then both teams aren't at the same location so that also runs risk of forfeits.

6) A team cannot play a SL 6-7 twice with this rule. - It keeps the standings fair and more accurate along with a more stable and fair area of competition week after week.

7) If a team has to forfeit a match, the opposing team has the option to choose the player that can play twice for the other team. - Keeps the competition fair and controls the potential for s@ndb@gging.




I hope this gives you enough to think about and with me posting this here, gives alot of people something to think about.

[Pat Mahoney]

I took time to think about it!

Personally I think it should be a permanent rule, well as long as the person shooting twice is a topless female!

[gtelvis]

I think the rule is fine, and since it would be an "experiment" in a sense, to see if it was successful, keeping the rule as simple as possible would be the best way to go.

Creating a myriad of regulations surrounding the rule is patently ridiculous, and would cause such confusion and disagreements it would ensure the rule would be a failure.

To try and garner as much participation in the summer, and as many full leagues, I think it is a great idea. We have a team of eight, and if such a rule was in effect, we would probably create 2 teams for 2 divisions to allow more play for the 8 (and possibly look to add a couple more people who might be interested). It's a great opportunity for some people to give the league a try, and if they don't want to continue the team isn't stuck because of a lost player.

[RazorBlade]

I like the rule too. Especially the topless girl part. Aren't there some divisions where the girls play topless anyway? I think this rule with or w/o topless girls would help in the summer time. There is always such a huge drop off, and sometimes it's really hard to get people to play in the summer. Last summer we had to forfiet twice - AND no topless girls to boot!!

[mjwest]

Good rule. And I think keeping it simple is the best idea. Having a laundry list of considerations surrounding the rule doesn't make sense. Summer session, when participation falls off, this rule would provide a great opportunity to provide new players to give the league a try. A full season is a strong commitment, and holds some people back with that facing them.

And if someone wants to play a 7 and a 2 twice, who cares. Beat them, that's all you have to do. With the 23 rule in place, there are limits on how a team could try and strategize.

If you allow it during the season, I think you have to allow it during the playoffs. What if someone fielded a team of 4, or even 3?

[06Busa]

interesting.
First match counts toward team & MVP points. Second match only good for team points.
Player is only allowed to play twice only if the team can't feild 5 players.
The opposing team may play just as many players twice even if they have 5 or more for the night. (their option) I consider that head up play.
The opposing team may deny, under the condition that a make-up match is agreed upon. Other wise the match must be played.

[stevesgirl]

I think you all are missing the fact that you still have to stay within the 23 rule if you are playing players twice.

Again, playoffs is only a race to 3. How would you feel if it was the last week of playoffs and you just happen to play against another team with a 7 on it. You might as well forfeit playoffs, cuz the 7 is going to win most of the time. Especially Jeff Sergent and my man. LOL. So right there up front your team is already down 2 to nothing and the other team only needs 1 win and it's over. Especially if your a team that busts their asses during the session to take top point. Then oops, you didn't realize you still have to go thru playoffs because your division doesn't have a top point freebie to COC.

I'm saying I don't think it's fair to even do it during playoffs. I only listed suggestions IF we were going to allow the rule to keep it fair.

I don't think the rule is fair period. It might be fair out in wilmington, romeoville, bolingbrook, and even lemont, but definately not Joliet.

[06Busa]

Another thread was started on the 23 rule. http://chicago-pool.com/site/showthread.php?t=72
Here is a idea.

every point over 23 would start the team player with the same number of games forfited to the opponents.

player is a 4 and would put the team total at 24. The opponent is a 5 putting their team at 23. The 4 would still need 3 games per speed rules. But the 5 would only need 3.


Actually I like the 23 rule.

I agree with the others that said play twice only in normal play. Never in play-offs or Tournament.

[cepelinas]

I dunno folks. I haven't seen anything in this thread that makes me think that this is a good idea. If it ain't broke -- don't fix it.

[dltrunn]

Well, I haven't chimed in on this yet, but I think it is a good idea, just for the summer. It isn't that big of deal, probably won't be the cause of different outcomes in matches, and is helpful to teams that have players who take summers off.

I wans't going to give my two cents, partly because I didn;t want to read the 5 point paper someone posted, but I suppose I should say something since few think it is a good idea. There is no reason to not try it once, if we/you don;t like it just let it be known, that is all you can do.

Don't knock it till you try it.

[Aimls1]

I have shot in this format in DuPage County and it actually ran pretty smooth. It wasn't as technical as you guys seem to want it to be though. (Aside from Pat, of course.)Even if you had 8 players show up league, you still had the option to shoot two players twice. Didn't matter. Every team had the same option though. Also keep in mind, if someone thinks they can stack a team using that to their advantage, their winning players handicaps will also change quicker. In all honesty, it was a lot less stressful, believe it or not.

[Pat Mahoney]

Whateverrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!!!! !!!

Im innocent whatever she meant!

[phenom]

its a bad idea

[poker31]

it's a bad idea if you can,t get players to play take the summer off

[jazzenut]

Its a bad idea.

[dltrunn]

Afraid of a little change? It will be fine, I think it is a good idea, just for the summer. Can you play twice during playoffs? I know they won't allow it past that so it only benefits a team for so long. I know a lot of people who are taking the summer off, or that only want to play 4 or 5 times. This allows for that. Some of us have children, family, vacations, other obligations that need to be met over the summer. This is a great idea, except to those who live for pool, I guess. No insult there, I love pool league and glad that I am in it. I have a son though, and will want to use my time over the summer to enjoy the days with him also. This allows me to release myself from a weekly obligation and use that time in a manner more suitable to my life. I think it will be fine for a session, I hope we continue to do it every summer.

[Dee]

Playing twice in a match during the summer (ONLY SUMMER) could be do-able considering summertime is a VERY hectic time for lots of people. Family obligations and other things taking up time etc. etc. but doing this any other time of year would lead to a lot of corruption, and in all honesty take away from the fun that we as a league are supposed to be here for, competition is only fun when its done in an admirable way, and often times people lose sight of that when there is a loophole such as this one:eek:

[cepelinas]

Speaking of loopholes, I've already heard rumor that full teams have shown up only to send people home so they can play certain players more than once. Has anybody run across that situation?

[stevesgirl]

Speaking of loopholes, I've already heard rumor that full teams have shown up only to send people home so they can play certain players more than once. Has anybody run across that situation?


Well from what I heard, it doesn't matter if a full team is there or not. I asked for the criteria/requirements and there aren't any really. You have the flexibilty to play up to 2 people twice as long as the total of the 5 matches equal the 23 handicap rule regardless if a full team is there or not. Basically, we are going to follow DuPage Summer Bi-laws. I received a copy of those and again, there aren't any limitations other then the handicap rule.

This is/was exactly what I said would happen in an earlier post. That's why I thought it was a SERIOUSLY bad idea. I can see Dupage using it as that isn't a huge area to begin with,

[Aimls1]

I really don't see what the big deal is. It's only summer session. Besides, EVERY team can choose to shoot one of their heavy hitters more than once. Every team has that option. A point was made earlier about a 7 being shot twice. Most teams have strong 6's and 5's which can counter that. I don't fear playing 7's and I'm a 5. Well........maybe Jeff Sargeant. However, I don't shoot in Joliet, so maybe I don't truly appreciate how advanced your division must be compared to our "weak" area? At any rate, give it a try with an open mind, if you by the end of the session you hated it, just let Mary know-she did say it's only a trial run.

[Dee]

Honestly it is a good idea for summer I am totally for it, only because summer is a huge family time and instead of taking the chance of losing a WHOLE team, shes implementing something to HELP keep them playing, which is a GREAT idea, i just wouldnt want to see it for any other sessions other than summer, because i truly think it would add more possibilities of not being sportsman like in the long run, afterall this is a game we play for sport to have fun and learn to be better at it, not all of us (myself included) were graced with GREAT shooting skill and coordination therefore we do this as more of a learning game, im done rambling haha, thanks for listenin

[YayPool]

I think a big problem with the playing twice is a match is the way that the MVP TOP GUN is being scored. It doesn't seem fair to the people on teams that can field 5 person teams every week, when someone has the opportunity to play twice every week for Top Gun, maybe only one of the matches should count towards Top Gun?

[Dominic]

I believe if you shoot twice in a night only one score is counted for Top Gun.
I do think it works well for the summer session to be able to shoot twice in a night.

[cepelinas]

I still don't like it from a player's standpoint, but I completely understand the business reasoning behind it. If you win twice, only the higher of the two handicaps counts towards top gun. Does anyone know, can you play twice in the playoffs, or is this only during the regular session?

[stevesgirl]

One player can play twice during playoffs. The sheet is in your envelopes detailing this.

[Mary]

As we hit mid session, more and more complaints are coming in about a full team playing a high ranked player twice. At this point, I'd pull the plug if I could, or change it... but I still think that some teams would "send their guys home" if they wanted to use the rule. SO... since the teammates want to come hang out, want to allow their captain to play this strategy, then the rest of the session will continue with the same policy... Any two players can play twice, as long as they stay under 23.... Would I prefer that teams only play players twice when they're short? Definitely.... Is that the policy? No.

Part of the problem is that players didn't read the announcement in their envelopes (or email) at the end of last session, and didn't read the 1/2 sheet announcement in their envelope at the beginning of this session, and since not everyone has email, they aren't aware of it until their opponent throws their guy for a second tim. So, it's my fault, I guess. lol

Mary

[Dee]

Not your fault Mary, having a good sportsman attitude goes upon the players, and if they need to play their best to get the games then so be it, i know that our team plays for fun, we could really careless if we win, sure we like to win, but we dont care if we lose, and to purposely play your high people and make your 2's and 3's sit because you dont want to lose, is just poor sportsmanship and isnt fair to the ones who have to sit because then in the end do they ever learn to play better? and move themselves up in the rankings like others? nope, but hey who am i?

[Dominic]

The rules for the Summer session are you can play twice in a session as long
as you stay at 23 points or below. I don't understand what all the complaints are about. The rule is the same for everyone, the team captain decides who plays and who doesn't. I don't think it is poor sportmanship, I think it gives the Captains more flexability during sessions when all your players can't show up for a match.

[Dee]

The rules for the Summer session are you can play twice in a session as long
as you stay at 23 points or below. I don't understand what all the complaints are about. The rule is the same for everyone, the team captain decides who plays and who doesn't. I don't think it is poor sportmanship, I think it gives the Captains more flexability during sessions when all your players can't show up for a match.

now IFFFFF everyone used it when players didnt "show up" for matches i could see it giving more flexibility BUT there are teams that are fully capable of shooting 5 different players but choose not to because they want that win...which all in all is understood but most people want to shoot to have fun, thats what its abut...the logistics of it all are just a lil misdirected for most teams...theres nothing wrong with using the summer rule if you have to, BUT to use it and abuse it because it gives you an upper hand in the game is just not right...how would you feel if you were say a 2 instead of the 6 you are, and your team captain said be at all the games, but never let you play because he didnt want to take the chance on losing a match? you would eventually stop showing up and stop wanting to be a part of that team... anyhow its all good when the rules arent being "flexed" into something that inhibits others in the league... we all pay our dues, and no matter if we are good or bad we should still be able to shoot each week if we are in attendance....

[stevesgirl]

In my opinion I think the rule should be changed anyway and not used at all. It's almost mid-session so I don't see why you can't modify it. If the rule still can be used, then I think you should be able to play a person twice AS LONG AS their handicap is a SL 5 or below. ESPECIALLY IN PLAYOFFS when you can play 1 person twice. Race to 3 and a team plays their 7 twice in playoffs???

My Thursday team can take advantage of this rule even when our full team shows up. We have the option of playing our 7 twice every week just like another team does in our division, but we choose not too. Only they do it just about every week. Do I think it's fair? NO. To me, it's classified as some form of "che@ting the system" just to take top point and getting that entry into COC. We don't think it's fair to other teams we play against in the division if we play our 7 twice.

However, it would give our lower numbers more time at the table if you think about it. 7,7,4,3,2 or 7,7,5,2,2. Anyone being a 2, shouldn't be complaining about playing time, because with the summer rule, you would basically be playing every week if you had a 7 on your team.

Can we come to some sort of resolution on this Mary? I think there should be a limit on the SL you are allowed to play if you have to play twice. SL 5 and lower can possibly be acceptable.

Send out a note stapled to the scoresheet. Most teams don't thumb thru the envelope anyway.

[Dee]

By NO means am i complaining about playing time, because thankfully for myself i have a team made up of people who come to play for fun and do NOT care about wins/losses, i was simply saying the fact that what if there was a 2 on a team of people who rarely play them because they want the win or the points for that win instead of taking the chance on not getting them, to me it doesnt matter I see some problems with the rule but overall it doesnt really bother me, i just dont think mary should blame herself for implementing it, when its the people that misconstrue its true meaning in the end...i dunno im a happy "2" and if i stay a 2 for always ill be happy as well, because i know i have a great team who could careless about skill level, and winning, sure we all think it would be nice, but in the end, its a game...its not paying our bills and it sure isnt life...its something to do to have fun, and enjoy learning as we go...;)

[Dominic]

If I was on a team that wouldn't let me play because I was a two I would do
two things. First I would try to improve my game so I could play. Second I would talk to the captain and if he still didn't want to play me I would look for another team! I play pool six days a week, 3 days in leagues and I practice 2 hours a day. I have been doing this since last August and my game has improved. I still have a lot of work to do on my game but I love the game.

[Mary]

Rules cannot be changed mid session... it's just not right.

[dltrunn]

There is no reason to change rules. I have actually only been involved in two matches where the rule has even been used. We used it once and our oppenent used it once.

Side Note: I agree with Dominic. If your team doesn't let you play find a new one. The fact of the matter is that even if you get to let someone play twice or you have seven people show up there are going to be weeks you don't play. If they didn't intend to let you ever play then why would you still be on the team. All they have to do is drop you from the roster. Though, I would never paly someone twice if I had five people there. Even if the handicapps weren't close. There is an advantage to having a 3 play a 5 for both players.

[Aimls1]

I haven't had any problems with the summer session rules. It really doesn't bother me at all if a team shoots the same player twice, because I know I have the same option if it comes down to it. Obviously it does bother some, but it's only the summer session. And from what it sounds like, Mary will not be implementing it next summer. Which I think is too bad, because a lot of peolayers have other things going on in the summer and can't show up every week. I liked having the flexibility and not having to worry about a forfeit.

[Boogz]

I don't have any problem with the rule, and think the complaints are bogus.

Wow big deal you can play a 7 twice in a playoff match. We'll you better have a super strong 5 and 2 or 4,3, and 2. I'll just throw off on the 7 and play my strong players on the lower numbers. If you go and cry about us throwing off on the 7, well thats what you get for playing the 7 twice.

The only problem i honestly see, is people are having problems ***ging against the teams throwing a player up twice. this session you can't just look at a roster and say "you beat him, while this person will lose to that player" and so on. Teams are not obligated to throw a set roster, there are so many combiantions if you have the right handicaps there.

All of you should only be concerned about Playoffs and CoC (when it is do or die, and you actually get to play for something), why are we going to cry over spilled milk during the session. Top gun is really that important in a league built on teams?

[stevesgirl]

LOL why would we "cry" about a team throwing off on our 7? Our team thinks its comical when higher numbers "duck" our 7. I can't speak for other teams who actually do whine about it.

My opinion, my theory. When a team plays a 7 twice tells me one of 2 things. 1) that team isn't all that great and "depends" on their 7 to do all the work for that team or 2) that team is using their 7 to keep their other players from going up in handicap.

On another note, that's the difference in the caliber of players between Romeoville and Joliet. The players in Joliet are stronger then in Romeoville. That's why you guys have your own bracket at COC and Citywide. Playing a 7 twice in Romeoville is less likely because there are very few of them in that area to begin with that are current members. I can probably count on on hand how many there are. Compared to Joliet, there are triple the amount of active 7's and better competition. A better variety of players.

ONCE AGAIN, I DON'T have a problem with the rule, I just think a SL should be set.

[Aimls1]

Should I feel insulted by that remark???? Lower caliber players????

[stevesgirl]

I never said "lower caliber" players anywhere in my post to begin with and honestly, if you felt insulted, it's because you took it that way. Why? I have no clue.

I was simply indicating the difference in the skill level ability in players in joliet versus the skill ability in romeoville as a whole. Once you've played in both areas you see there really is a difference.

[Hairy_Helmet]

It is beneficial for teams to throw off on the opposing teams 7 generally(thats not the opposing teams best player ducking the 7, but being a team player). If they are a good 7 then w/e player u throw is the underdog. It benefits my team for me to play the other teams best player, not b/c other players on my team couldnt win, but the odds are better for me. If I was to play another teams 2, yeah i probably would win, but the other teams best player probably would beat one of our players too.

I havent played twice yet this session, but my team has talked about it. It would help keep my teams handicaps down. For some reason I thought that we were not aloud to use this rule during the playoffs. If we are, then I think that this rule WILL be abused and to be honest, ...... we probably will take advantage of it. (i'm only opposed to the rule for playoffs)

I'm so tired of hearing how much better Joliet players are. Sorry... but it gets old (not one persons comments, just in general). Joliet has some really strong players and really strong teams, but I would sooner credit the captains of the area rather than the players in the area as a whole. ........though there do seem to be a lot of 7's in Joliet and many are VERY good.

[Dominic]

I play out of Romeoville if a Joliet team needs a player for the fall session please contact me. I'm rated a SL6 and would like to play on a team in Joliet.

I'll be glad when the summer session is over so we can stop hearing about playing twice in a session. I played twice last night and lost to a level 6--5/4
and beat a level 5--5/0. Our team had 4 player show up due to vacations. It
is better to be able to play twice in a match than to forfeit.

[stevesgirl]

Sorry if I offended anyone just by comparing areas. But it had to be said to make my point. I'm also against hearing it myself and using it to make a point to support my reasoning for dis-allowing the rule in Joliet is all I was doing.

I don't play in multiple areas anymore, but some people do. From experience, I spent 2 years of my time in Romeoville, and now the last 2 years in Joliet. There is a huge difference in skill. I enjoy where I play now. Give's me and my team a more logical determination of what our true handicap level should be. A variety of people versus playing the same people over and over.

Simply saying in Joliet, I don't think it's necessary to use the rule only because the competition level is that much greater. There is no need to play a SL 7 twice. In Romeoville, I would say, sure use it. I don't think it's fair at all to use the rule in playoffs period because you can't do it at COC. But if you must, then please set a SL limit on it to make it fair all the way around. Sadly, we can't change it now and their are ALOT of teams that will be upset. I foresee that already.

I would agree, in some cases it's benefical to throw off on a 7, but seriously, it would depend on the 7 and who you got left to play in rotation. Maybe I'm more critical because I have huge confidence in our 7 because I now he can go on a 30+ game winning streak playing any SL. I also have confidence in my other teammates as well. However, I also know how frustrating it is for a lower player to play a 7. We tried that before and it made our lower SL feel like crap. I'm a 4 and I think I would probably get frustrated as well. I sure as hell don't want to be that person who plays a 7 in a "HILL" match. Especially if I have to play someone like Sarg or even my fiance. I wouldn't even bother taking my stick out. Well maybe to break if I happen to win the lag. LOL

I am too sick of this rule period. We can play a SL 2-6 twice (and we have) and still get heat for it. So I say, would you rather we play our 7 again???

Bottom line, it's being abused by the TEAMS who choose to play their SL7 twice. It's not just the captains fault. Just because someone is listed as captain, doesn't necessary mean it's the captains making the final decision on who plays. With our team, everyone talks about who we play next. Once we all agree, then whoever is playing tells the other team, most of the time. It's not one sided with us, it's a team thing.

So with all this said, I think our team should probably play our 7 twice each week too. Even thou I'm against it and as long as Mary can't change it now, I'm with you, might as well abuse it like everyone else does. And if we do it, we are no better then anyone else right?

[06Busa]

I still like the idea of 2 times in a match. Couple of rules could be modified to rally make it worth having. 1 example - if a team is not short of 5 players then they can not play anyone twice, unless they can not meet the 23 rule.

I have seen teams play someone twice even when they had 7 or 8 players. :rolleyes: Why? I can think of a few reasons, bet you can too.

[Under Review]

Just Because Some Teams Play A Person Twice A Night Doesn't Mean That Team Needs A Player To ***. ( Yes I Said It). Teams Normally Play A Certain Player Against One Another So Its A Good Way To Mix Things Up. And I Think Its Good To Do That Sometimes. As For One Location Being Stronger Than Others...... I Played In Joliet And Now Back In Romeoville And The Only Difference Ive Seen Was Romeoville Players Or More At Their S/l Than Joliet.

[kmlpag]

On another note, that's the difference in the caliber of players between Romeoville and Joliet. The players in Joliet are stronger then in Romeoville. That's why you guys have your own bracket at COC and Citywide"

What a crock. I can't believe you could say that. I've played in Joliet for about 8 years and I've played in Romeoville for about 7. Joliet does not have stronger players than Romeoville and vice versa. Both areas have good players and both areas have ***gers. On the 2nd part of that sentence that is not why there are seperate brackets in COC and Citywide. If you remember correctly, there are seperate brackets to make it more fair the amount of teams from each area that go to COC & Citywide. Frankfort Area teams had the fewest amount of teams compared to Joliet/Romeoville, yet they had the highest amount of teams going to Vegas. For example if an area has 20% of the teams, 20% of their teams would go on to Citywide. It was to make it more fair, not because one area had better players.

[Under Review]

my thought is more players are playing in joliet these days because they want to hide!!!!! not to play....... when you make changes to the game of pool like playing twice in a night those people who dont like the change are in uncommon water and its effect is there and on another note who really wants to forfeit? im all for it :)

[stevesgirl]

I don't expect everyone to agree with what anyone says on a public board. I thought this post was created to get opinions. The rule was set BEFORE peoples opinions were heard and taken into consideration in my opinion. Instead, people get insulted to a few comments. To each it's own I guess. Thank god, there are only 4 weeks left of the session and this will be the end of this post.

WOW, KMLPMG, you of all people ought to know by asking this question. "Why is there never an 8-ball team out of Romeoville/Lemont going to Vegas" I thought the same thing when I played in Romeoville. That's ok, I still love ya.

I remember completely why areas were seperated. But what I opinionate is one point out of a long list of reasons as to why they were seperated. One reason, IN MY OPINION is because those smaller areas can't compete against Joliet at COC/Citywide because those smaller area teams play within their own areas ability. Make Sense???

There are good players in all areas, Aurora, Joliet, Frankfort, Romeoville. Aurora and Romeoville spoke out and Aurora and Romeoville got a bracket. GREAT because it was a topic for a long time and they deserved it.

UNDER REVIEW: As far as Romeoville players playing in Joliet to hide, I think that statement in itself is pretty bold. I actually see alot more Joliet players going to Romeoville. There are more people moving their residence out to the Joliet area. Each person on my team has played in Romeoville at one point or another and we all live in Plainfield. Made much better sense to place the team in Joliet where it's closer to our homes.

[cepelinas]

Jeez, can't we all just get along? :)

[kmlpag]

WOW, KMLPMG, you of all people ought to know by asking this question. "Why is there never an 8-ball team out of Romeoville/Lemont going to Vegas" I thought the same thing when I played in Romeoville

To Stevesgirl: I never ask myself that question since I have been to Vegas, playing out of Halftime, as you have. There are teams that play out of Lemont that go to Vegas all the time. I just don't understand how you can think that one area has better players or better ability then another area.

[stevesgirl]

There are teams that play out of Lemont that go to Vegas all the time. I just don't understand how you can think that one area has better players or better ability then another area.


Yeah, the leagues that have NOTHING to do with Mary's league go to Vegas. We are talking about Mary's leagues only. APA, not BCA or ACS or whatever it is you call it.

You don't need to understand my opinion. However, I will explain it anyway.

You have obviously been in MARY'S league longer then me so with that said, I'm stating facts based on what I have seen since [I]I started in 2002. There has been only 1 team (9-ball) out of Romeoville/Lemont. You guys got your own bracket last year in 2006. Which really didn't make any sense actually because we played Carter's Place on Sunday last year and beat them to go and we were already in the loser's bracket after the 1st round. They got a 2nd chance. So tell me what the obvious is? 2 8ball teams since last year only because of their own bracket? When did the last 8-ball team out of Romeoville/Lemont go to Vegas before 2006? Must of been pre-2002. All the more reason to base my opinion on what's in black and white.

Frankfort is a smaller area then Romeoville and they manage just fine to win a spot or multiple spots. Don't tell me about %'s because at the time all areas had the same equal opportunity. Based on the % of teams out of each area, I think the odds speak for themselves. Sorry if you feel insulted, but again, it's obvious if you put it in perspective and it's STILL MY OPINION.

[cepelinas]

Speaking of putting things in perspective, does it REALLY matter whos league is "better"? It should be a given that some leagues are more competitve than others -- so what?. That's nothing to brag about nor take offense at. Honestly, this thread has gotten a little silly. Play pool, meet people, have fun. That's all the perspective anybody needs.

[stevesgirl]

I agree, it's silly and it got off track of the main subject.

[NO SKILLS]

I've been reading this string for a while and kept quiet until now.

I have to say I have to side with Stevesgirl here. Where did you people get your education at, Whats a matta U? Did you people at all comprehend what she was trying to say to make her point? Obviously not!!! You people get insulted too freakin easily only because she used the phrase "Joliet has better players than Romeoville" in order confirm her reason why she felt the 2 person can play twice rule shouldn't be used in Joliet. Then you all FREAK OUT and turn it into something that it's not! A freakin rivalry doesn't belong in the APA. Are you people still in high school??? Reminds me of the on going rivalry between Bolingbrook/Romeoville high school or Green Bay/Bears. I thought we were adults here.



I look at it this way, pool is a game and to "modify" the rules to accomodate teams to anything that CANNOT be used at a national level, then why bother? Mary's league should practice National Level rules throughout all sessions because when you go to Vegas, you are prepared. If the reason of this rule is to prevent teams from forfeiting during the summer, then those team(s) shouldn't be playing at all. Those people who really want to play and can't put together a full team ought to swallow their pride and stop being so picky about who they want to play with or just take the session off

From what I see, Joliet does have better players IN THE APA. You have Jeff Sergent, Vic Johnson, Steve Matthews, Dan Hayes, Jerry Borrego and a few other 7's. You also have alot of stronger 6's, 5's, 4's and 3's then you do in Romeoville. I would love to play in an area where you can learn far more from different people even if it is just by watching. You can't learn anything or get better when you play the same Joe Smoes over and over. At least in Joliet, there's a better variety of competition (maybe that's what Stevesgirl should of said) and a more clear picture of how your game really is.

I was thinking about coming back to play in the Fall session after a being off a while. I played in Romeoville before and I quit because of all the whining, complaining, and drama that was going on. Glad to see it still hasn't changed.

[Aimls1]

I can truly appreciate all that is being on said here. I don't necessarily agree with it.........but that's my opinion. I'm fine with people not seeing things from my standpoint. I'm not going to try to fight everybody tooth and nail to see things my way.

However, what I've seen on here are generalizations being made as well as insults just to get points accross. Would you honestly talk to a fellow APA player this way in person, or anyone else for that matter?

[dltrunn]

I must agree, there is far too much whinning and complaining. Just shut up and play, or go home. I am tired of all the whinners that will more than happily bitch about something to Mary, but don't have the balls to speak up to anyone else but her. Its like going and telling the teacher. Grow up!!!! You have a problem say it, don't call and tell. That is the most piddly **** I have ever been involved with. I have only played a few Joliet teams, but they are better. They come to play, and have fun, but to win. I think it is more of a mindset than anything. don't get me wrong, I come to have fun, and I have more than my share most nights, but I come to win. To me winning is fun, and losing is not. These sensitive little Betty's, no offense to the people with the actual name Betty :), can't take a little talking, when they do the same, or attitude, when they give the same. The difference is, is that I am not going to call Mary and complian like a little school girl/boy.

Sorry, I will stop now. I sensed the guys dissatisfaction above, so I decided to give my two cents. If you are offended, complain and they will delete my post. Just makes me feel better to type it to everyone since I can't express it to the people who deserve it.

[RJKoeh]

How about everyone stops whining like little girls. You are in the APA, where it makes it fun for everyone and anyone can win, remember that, because if you were any better you wouldn't be in the APA, you'd be on the circuit. The rules are there for everyone's advantage. Anyone can play a person twice in a match, not specific teams. Happened to me last week. I beat someone and they threw him up again, and then they lost again. So what! If you don't like the rules, go somewhere else, or become an operator yourself.
It is one thing for everyone to voice their opinion, but things will nt change and people need to not use this site as a bitch post, but rather a brainstorming venue. Share your ideas and views on the league, don't criticize and try think of things that will better the league. people who have been running this league have been doing it for a long time and wouldn't do something that would discredit the APA.
Also, in everything, trials are always balance and error, you need to try things once full though before they can even begin to be perfected. So let it go through for a session, then post all of your replies and views on the playing twice. It is the first time they did it, so let it happen and when it is over, then post views your pros and cons.

[06Busa]

Can I get a do over?

This was still a good Idea. Just need to modify the rulez a little more.

[phenom]

i was against the playing twice in a match rule when it first started.. now i like it gives me time in the summer to do other things. there are ppl who take advantage of the rules there always will be im on a team that has i dont agree to it but it is what it is pool is pool there are way too many ppl on this post and in league who take league pool as if its life or death to win